Explore the pervasive influence of media corporations on public discourse and political division. Our discussion examines how profit-driven media companies manipulate public perception and foster conflict, making it difficult for people to see the larger forces at play. Joe provides a unique perspective on generational differences in media consumption, noting the younger generation's savvy navigation of the complex media landscape.
We also tackle the challenges faced by third-party candidates like Mr. Kennedy, who strive to bring genuine grassroots movements into the political arena. Learn about the concept of "corporate capture" and the importance of seeking diverse sources of information. This episode highlights the significance of community involvement and personal responsibility in political engagement, urging listeners to take an active role in shaping the nation’s future.
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Welcome and thank you for joining another edition of the Friends in Wonder podcast brought to you by two lifelong friends who've been walking their dogs together proverbially for over 55 years while wondering about the things that are meaningful in life. Joe Luther is an accomplished attorney with a political science degree from Wayne State University, an entrepreneur, family man and mentor. Vince Kern has a journalism degree from Wayne State University and had a 30-year-long career in the media business as both a journalist and an operations director. You can find Friends in Wonder podcast on any of your streaming platforms, as well as friendsinwondercom. Again, thank you for joining us, joe, are you ready?
Joe:How can I not be ready to talk to you, Vince?
Vince:Well, welcome folks to a special edition of our Friends in Wonder podcast. I'm here with my co-host, joe Luther, and we haven't done a podcast in a while. For those of you who have been with us, you might know that we've done about 33 podcasts over our adventure into podcasting. This is our first video podcast, however, so thank you for joining us with any warts that may come about as a result of this. I hope we're presentable. Joe, you're looking good today. How the heck are you?
Joe:Thank you, vince. I'm doing quite well and I'm excited to be doing this kind of special episode, yeah.
Vince:Well, you're all adorned in your Kennedy stuff and that is one of the main reasons we're doing this. Joe, I haven't seen you in a while. You've been out in the world for quite a while now on the Kennedy campaign trail here in Michigan and that is a bit of a different experience for you. I know you have a degree in political science from Wayne State University in Detroit. You're an attorney. You were a businessman for many, many, many years, entrepreneur, mentor of many people, and when we were younger I remember sitting in your driveway once I think we were about 14 years old, and you were telling me that other people, as well as possibly yourself, had aspirations to be the President of the United States and apparently that didn't come to fruition. But you are out there promoting the Kennedy campaign. Joe, can you talk a little bit about what you're doing and what motivated you to do this at the age of? I think you're 65 now and you could be doing many, many other things, like one of the candidates says.
Joe:Well, thank you, vince. Actually I'm 64. I'm soon to be 65. But, yeah, what motivated me to do this first and foremost is that I believe in the candidate and most of my life, as you said I was a political science major I've been fascinated by politics and because I went to law school and became a lawyer I don't practice anymore I've always been very fascinated by the political process, the lawyers that seem to dominate the scene in Washington DC, issues, know, issues with the Supreme Court all of that have fascinated me over the years and probably, like a lot of Americans, I've been frustrated with the way American politics has gone over really over my lifetime, the last 50 years that I've been paying attention anyhow, and you know, here's finally a candidate.
Joe:In my opinion, and I think if people take time to get to know him and probably everybody's opinion, who really knows him is somebody who's really all about integrity and about service and about being in politics for the right reasons. Whether you agree 100% with everything that he stands for, what he does stand for is a full and transparent discussion about the issues and when you do that, you recognize that this is a very sincere, good-hearted person. And when he decided to go in the race. I had already been really familiar with his life, and it was in the wake of COVID. He had written the real Anthony Fauci book, which you know I read cover to cover and I was all in when he decided that he wanted to be part of this. I made a personal commitment that if he's going to really risk everything, risk his career, risk literally his life by doing this, the least I can do as a 64-year-old man is everything I can to help him get there. So that was my motivation. That's why now I'm a volunteer here in Michigan.
Vince:And how long have you been doing this, and tell me a little bit about what being a volunteer here in Michigan means for you. What do you do? How much time does it take? We're going to talk a little bit about the experience out there in the field in a while, but just for those who have never been on a campaign before, let's talk about your role, like I said, how long you've been doing it, what you do.
Joe:Well, first thing that people don't really understand. Even some of the volunteers that work in our campaign don't understand. This is a grassroots campaign. There's no big money or oiled machine behind what we're doing, so it's volunteers, all hands on deck. I don't officially work for the Kennedy campaign. In fact, anything I'm saying on this podcast is not official or is in no way reflective of anything to do with the campaign. In fact, anything I'm saying on this podcast is not official or is in no way reflective of anything to do with the campaign. It's just my observations as a volunteer, and literally most of us on the campaign are volunteers.
Joe:I'm a volunteer, excuse me, in charge of Southeastern Michigan, you know, kind of coordinating volunteers in Southeastern Michigan. We have other coordinators in Macomb and Wayne County and that kind of thing. But I've been in it since really January working with the campaign and going back all the way a year ago to July 4th, my wife and I, sonia, we sponsored a parade. Well, we didn't sponsor the parade, but we sponsored being in the parade on behalf of Mr Kennedy. So it's been over a year that I've been kind of campaigning on his behalf and really since February that I've been working real hard and now we're in. You know, here it is the end of August or middle of August and we're really in the campaign earnest now and it's been interesting, it's been fun, it's been interesting, it's been energizing.
Vince:It's been frustrating. It's been a lot of things. It's been interesting to watch this campaign change. Obviously we're in a historic campaign with the shift from Biden to Harris and all of the things that have happened. And you know I wonder what it was like out there in the field. And tell me about the different types of things you're doing in the field. And you know people seem to be pretty charged up before Biden dropped out. Obviously, between Trump and Biden, a lot of divisiveness out there. I recall when we were younger, you know there were lawn signs everywhere. People openly spoke about things, issues, and this divisiveness has got to be out there in a bigger way than you know me sitting at home and watching all this through my screens and and not really being out there. So what's it like?
Joe:Yeah, you know that's a. You know it's a great question, vince, and that's really a big part of what I would love to get people to understand in this podcast is is that I had never like. Yeah, we, everybody keeps track of current events in their own way, through TV, through news media, whatever it is but I'd never really worked like this on a campaign, on the streets, interacting with others, and so some of the things that we've done, like from the beginning, when I joined the campaign, it was all about getting signatures for them to get them on the ballot, and the first couple of months that was all we were doing. So I was standing out in front of farmers markets or post offices or whatever and just interjecting with the public, asking them if they're willing to, you know, sign a petition to get somebody on the ballot. And and that's a fascinating process in and of itself because you know we're not a lot of times I would say, listen, I'm not asking you to vote for him, I'm just asking you to sign for his right to be on the ballot, and you would think most people would be okay with just anybody being on the ballot, as long as he's qualified. Certainly, mr Kennedy is an attorney for 40 years, got the Kennedy family name behind him. If you know anything about him, he's probably more qualified than the other two candidates, but that's opinion speaking. But he's certainly qualified to be on the ballot.
Joe:And people just you know, many people just didn't want any part of that and I was at first kind of shocked by that because you would think, right, no matter what your political leaning is, that you'd be okay with there being, you know, more people on the ballot and more discussion about issues. But I noticed that early on and I realized, wow, we are really a divided nation and we're dug in to believing that our side is right and anything else is bad. It's not good to talk to anybody else, they just represent something that is in itself bad. And it was shocking for me at first dealing with that. You know, I think there's a meme out there that it was one of my favorites. It's a little cartoon and I had it on my refrigerator for a long time and it's a king up in the castle looking down at the subjects, I guess you would call them, and there's just this swarm of mob of people and they have torches on one side and pitchforks on the other side and the king says no, no, you don't have to defeat them, you just have to convince the people with the pitchforks that the people with the torches want to take away their pitchforks. And that's. That's the mean.
Joe:And if you think about it, that's really what's going on in America is, is everybody believes that they're right and that the other side is trying to take something away from them. And you bring in an independent candidate and people just, I can tell you they literally explode. They don't know what to do with it and I've had some real interesting reactions. Some have been good and I got to tell you most people are good, but there's a lot of divisiveness out there and you mentioned the you know the lawn signs.
Joe:Yeah, people don't even really want to talk about it because they're just building up what they believe is right inside of them and not wanting to go out and express ideas with others about it. Some people even falsely believe that you know they'll be attacked if they express ideas. I mean, I hope it's false. I don't think that it's as bad as people make it, but what we have is a bunch of suppressed people holding in their opinions and not wanting to talk to others about ideas, and I think that's what's so invigorating about Mr Kennedy as a candidate is that he doesn't want to talk negative about the other people. He just wants to talk about the real issues and all the other stuff, all the other arguing he calls the jingly keys. That makes people look in that direction and not talk about the real issues, and that's what makes me so excited to be part of. This is I think it's historic in the last several decades in that we're really finally talking about issues again.
Vince:Yeah, what do you think that the reason people feel unable to express their opinion? You know, to me this goes to the reason people feel unable to express their opinion. You know, to me this goes to. When you talk about the king and the castle, you know, you might as well put a media corporation, the media, up there on the balcony, because it seems like the media is facilitating the divisiveness We've got plenty of examples of. When you talk about people being afraid that you know they'll be attacked, there's new ways to attack people censorship, silencing their opinions. You know all of that sort of thing. What do you attest to this? You know this divisiveness, I mean, I a few things, but is that, is that what you're seeing out there in the field?
Joe:well, I think yeah you, you kind of touched on it. So right, and that's a good point. The meme shows a king looking down at his subjects. But who is the king and who is, you know, responsible for trying to get the torches and the pitchforks against each other? And you know, a lot of people think that there is, like this, cabal or whatever, and I guess it depends on how you define cabal.
Joe:But what I think Mr Kennedy talks about, and what I believe is true, is that it's really corporate America. And you know that's a big, you know phrase, corporate America. Obviously there's a lot of good corporations out there, a lot of people working in corporations that are good people, but corporate interests have really infiltrated the way everything works in society today and people don't really understand. And certainly that's true in the media. And you know, the old saying that I think became popular over the last five years is that it's much easier to fool somebody than to convince them they've been fooled.
Joe:People, you know, watch their news sources and they trust their news sources, but they don't really recognize sometimes that those news sources are really corporate entities, that, you know, money drives their profit line, money drives their profit line, and so if we all know that, then we should also know that maybe the information coming from those corporate interests might be biased, and certainly people kind of fighting with each other doesn't allow you to look up at the castle and say, okay, what's really going on here, like who's really running this show? Is it the government anymore or is it corporate interests? And those are the issues that the king in the castle doesn't want anyone talking about. They would prefer everyone just be at each other's throats.
Vince:You know, it's interesting that you characterize it that way. We were in the green room talking a little bit before this. We didn't do a ton of prep work for this because this is really an organic discussion. But you know, over my 30 years of being in the media I saw it change quite drastically and saw information consumer habits change very drastically with the internet and social media coming into play. And now we're well into that. I mean we're almost, you know almost a few years. It'll be 20 years of FaceTime and Facebook and Twitter and that's what things habits develop among consumers.
Vince:Now you were talking about some of the generational things that you saw between people our age consuming information and how they tend to. You know from experience. Think that we know everything or that we're well prepared. Five years ago I was really concerned about the younger generation's ability to consume information. My experience tells me that's quite the opposite, that they're very savvy and adept. But you've seen a lot of that out in the field from being around thousands of people. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Joe:Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up and it's because what I didn't express earlier in my activities as a volunteer coordinator is I've been on the streets, like I've been to the Tiger Stadium or Comerica Park opening day, going out amongst the crowds, you know, just asking for signatures, and I've been to farmer's markets and 4th of July parades and um, all sorts of events in the summertime around here. I was at one last night and I'm talking to people and there there isn't a more raw way to interact with complete strangers than to talk really about politics and it's and it's fascinating to me. You know, I, I know we're not supposed to profile To me, you know, I know we're not supposed to profile, but what I've observed in general is that the older you get with the people you talk to like you know our age, and older the boomers, the more sure of themselves they are about their opinions of things. Maybe that comes with old age. You just think that you know it all and you know I, I like in the there's that phrase that everyone is familiar. Um, you are what you eat. Um, everyone understands that if you eat a bunch of cake, you're going to become something that exemplifies someone who eats a bunch of cake, uh. If you eat vegetables, uh, you know, same same. But the same is true with information you are what you eat when it comes to information, and a lot of us, I think that are older, have gotten very set in our ways, in how we consume information.
Joe:And a lot of older people, you know, haven't taken the time to learn how to find alternate information on the internet, whereas the younger generation has figured that out and sifting through the information that's coming at us is very difficult, and I see that on the street, because people are much more dug in as they're older and they don't really want to talk and they're pretty sure that any idea that you have is not a good one. And the younger you go, the more open they are to talk. And the younger generation, in my opinion, is extremely well-informed. And again, this is generalizing. There's certainly indoctrinated people and I don't want to sound like I know it all because I don't.
Joe:I know that I don't know it all, but you can tell, humans can tell when somebody is talking to someone who wants to exchange ideas versus somebody who thinks they they're closed-minded, they're full, they don't want anything more. And by far, by far, the younger generation is open to new ideas and the older generation has been. You know ideas and the older generation has been, you know, pretty much the hardest to talk to and I find that I find that sad. I find it sad that you know, as we get older we can't learn new tricks, that we can't be more open and again, I am saying this as a generalization, there's plenty of us, most of the volunteers on this campaign are older, but I'm just profiling in general that and that you know, by the way, that actually tracks with the polling, and for Mr Kennedy especially, is that the younger generation really, really loves him. The older generation either doesn't know about him or believes the misinformation out there about him.
Vince:Yeah, I want to talk about that misinformation in a little bit about him. Yeah, I want to talk about that misinformation in a little bit. You know, I have an observation and an opinion about the more openness of the younger generation and I think it really boils down to habitual news sourcing and older people. You know, when we were younger, there were three television networks, three newscasts ABC, nbc, cbs and you had people like Cronkite and Brinkley and presidential reporters like Sam Donaldson who were always, you know yeah, and they were asking, you know, these people were asking a lot of tough questions and that instilled a sense of trust in these networks.
Vince:And that instilled a sense of trust in these networks. Now that was, you know, 40, 50 years ago. And obviously the impact of the internet and social media has changed and especially the corporate media ownership for, I think, the younger generation. But for older people we tend to I call it drinking the Kool-Aid, everybody calls it drinking the Kool-Aid, but I think that we tend to do that as we're older because we built up a trust for these sources and people don't realize how these sources have changed. They give them an infinite amount of trust without noticing all the other things that are shifting the big picture of the media complex, and I think that the younger generation uses tools like Substack, other content delivery sources, and they don't. They're not tied to institutional media, they're tied to more of the truth and what resonates them with where older people it's set in my way, set in my way get off my lawn.
Vince:I watch ABC news or I watch Fox news or I watch CNN news and I don't watch anything else because it just reinforces my opinion. Now, personally, I watch everything I can, because I really want to see what's being said all over the place, and I've seen just a gross amount of misinformation about all of the candidates, quite frankly, whether it's Trump or Biden or Harris or Vance or Kennedy. And I'm fascinated by watching several of the Kennedy videos where people ask him pointed questions about other politicians and he basically says I don't want to talk about them. This is this is not about this. Yeah, it's about the issues, and you know, some of the things that I've learned in watching this campaign is not just how the media or campaigns want things to be divisive, but you know the political powers situation where, literally, they decided that, no matter who won in that state, all of the delegates would go to Biden, so he doesn't even have a chance there. I remember reading about that, but I guess I'm layering a bunch of questions on it once on you here.
Joe:Actually, there have been a number of things I should have been taking notes, a number of things I wanted to comment on there. First of all, one thing I want to go back to is what you were saying about the media and people's consumption habits of the media, and one of the things that I feel empowered, or not empowered, one of the things that I feel required to say is that, you know, really it comes down to individual responsibility with the news and what you're consuming. And today I'm just fascinated by people who are willing to accept all of their news information from one source like MSNBC, news information from one source like MSNBC, especially MSNBC or Fox, because they know when they're logging on that they're going to a source that is slanted in their direction, and there's a phrase for that, now called echo chambers, and people are willingly now going into their own echo chambers. And of course, the electronic media, the corporate media, is capitalizing on that because they want people staying on their platform. So you don't piss off your viewer by talking about other ideas, and so you just give them more of what they want to hear. So they go and they just they bathe in the same information over and over again and then, when that stuff becomes a little divisive, they just start to have more and more contempt for the other side and more and more belief in what it is they're consuming. And that's that you are what you consume idea.
Joe:But I think it's. You know. We can point to the corporate interests and say look at how evil they are what they're doing. But we have, we also have to look at ourselves and and ask is this the best way to be informed, to just go deliberately to these sources that provide what you want to hear, and are we able to occasionally brush our teeth with our left hand instead of always with the right hand?
Joe:Are we able to, you know, work both sides of our brains and hear, not just change from MSNBC and go to Fox, because those are both literally corporate interests, but to get out of that cycle altogether and look deeper, like so many of the people who I talk to at our age and older about Mr Kennedy. They don't. They haven't even listened to him speak on issues themselves. They're just believing what other people have told them to believe about them. And those who are open-minded and recognize that that's the case tend to say yeah, that's true, I really haven't looked myself, and so there's an individual responsibility that I think I wanted. You know you mentioned that and I wanted to get that out, but I'm sorry, what was the last part of your question?
Vince:Well, I was. You know.
Joe:I was thinking about this environment of an alternative candidate trying to you know get on the ballot and it's all part of the corporate interest, because you know you can say Republican or Democrat, but if we fundamentally understand that corporations and this is what Mr Kennedy talks about and why nobody wants a microphone in front of his voice, because he does it far more articulately than me but what he calls attention to is that corporate interests have so permeated the way our government runs now that it's really a capture. They call it a corporate capture and you know it's true in the regulatory agencies. We see it all the time, because those people who used to run the big, you know agricultural firms are running the Food and Drug Administration or the Department of Agriculture or whatever it is, and the same is true throughout all of government, and it's certainly the same is true. The most important thing for people who want to control power is who's going to become president of the United States. So for sure, the Democrat and Republican Party has billions of dollars in their coffers and those dollars don't come without attachment. It's plain and simple. And that's why Mr Kennedy's campaign is all about grassroots and he couldn't be more independent than any other campaigner or any other candidate out there, because he is, by virtue, unattached to any corporate interest, by literally unattached to any corporate interest, and so you know you talk about the process of how Kamala Harris, Kamala Harris has become the candidate and what they're doing with the delegate votes.
Joe:I don't really keep track of that, but it certainly isn't what they're preaching, and that is standing up for democracy, because democracy is about, you know, a republic is about letting the people speak through their votes, and certainly, if you're really concerned about empowering the people with their votes, you would want as many candidates as possible talking about as many ideas as possible, and anytime you're on the side of somebody who wants to silence another, you really should take a long hard look at why that is. Why are you trying to silence the ideas of somebody else? If it's not about, you know, hurting somebody else, if it's not about endangering the public, why aren't we willing to just talk about ideas?
Vince:Yeah, that's really the essence of a grassroots campaign. Since you and I have been alive, there have been few alternative candidates on the ballot and, uh, you know, I think that's what's honorable to me about what you're doing is that you're out there, putting yourself out there every day, and pardon me for saying this, but most people don't think that kennedy has a chance in hell to win. So I think you know there's still this idea, though that you know is it is it. Is it as much about the process for you and the fairness of it as the the result? Or do you think that he has a viable chance in this election? Do you think it might be down the road in another election?
Joe:Well, here's the thing, vince, If I were only in it because I thought he could win, that just kind of cements the whole idea of a two-party system, and I've argued since. I remember literally in eighth grade, when Richard Nixon was running for president. I remember arguing with a kid in class that what's wrong with America is the two-party system. We need to have at least a three-party system, because when it's one or the other, you're encouraging this pitchfork and torches kind of a concept and then you stop talking about the real issues and so bringing in an independent candidate. What I love about being involved in this is it goes back to something I've believed since I was a little kid and he's such a worthy candidate is that we're finally now starting to talk about real issues. Now can he win? I don't know. People didn't think Trump could win in 2016. They gave him no chance and between now and the election, a lot of things can happen. Certainly, they're doing their darndest to not make him relevant by not allowing him to debate. Why wouldn't they allow him to debate? What are they afraid of? But the reason I'm in it is because it's raising the level of conversation. The more Mr Kennedy stays in it and I know he's in it till the end, and I'm going to be in it till the end because it's good for America.
Joe:Talking about a third party candidate, or talking about the real issues that a grassroots third party candidate brings to the discussion, is something that I passionately believe in, and I will keep pushing for as long as I can, because the alternative is just the same old. The same old, you know, talking about the really the social issues and not the real issues. The real issues are, you know, the real health of America, the real quality of our food, what's really behind the wars that we're involved in? Is it about money or is it about really fundamental issues to our nation?
Joe:Talking about, you know, the gender issue? Yeah, those are important issues, but it's something that just polarizes people and gets them kind of fighting at each other instead of talking about what's really important to you. Can you afford a house? Is the younger generation. Maybe that's one of the reasons why they're looking for alternative information, as they know that they're doomed if we continue on the same path that we're on. And so Mr Kennedy raises that level of discussion, and that's really what, you know, the corporate lords who are standing up in the castle don't want.
Vince:Yeah, true enough. You know, just to insert something here. When we talk about accessing information, you'll be able to see a lot of his ideas and comments on Instagram. He's got a great Instagram account and he promotes and he speaks there openly about all kinds of things. He's been labeled ever since he joined the race. I remember him going in front of the Senate committee back, I want to say, last fall and, and you know, even there he was attacked for all kinds of stuff. You know being a conspiracy theorist, you know the anti-vaxxer, the whole ball of wax, but people don't understand what an impact he's had on the environmental front and the corporate lawsuits that he's, the things that he's done to really help the people in his career. And you know this business about. You know eating a dog and the bear it's-.
Vince:Worming his brain and all that kind of thing Worming his brain and the bear thing.
Joe:Aaron Rodgers is his vice president. Yeah, and there's. There's so much about Aaron.
Vince:Rodgers. There's so much out there about all of these candidates, now it seems like that's all we're getting. Are these stories that are intended to besmirch character, to assassinate character and to keep people from you know? Oh well, if you speak out against this guy, then you're. The common word now is weird.
Joe:It's one liner gotchas that people and again this comes back to personal responsibility people accept this idea. Well, I'm not interested in Kennedy. His own family hates him. Well, really is that true in Kennedy? His own family hates him Well, really is that true? Have you spoken to his whole family? He's got 100 family members. Maybe a few of them who are part of the Democratic National Party don't like that. He's doing what he's doing. But I bet you they don't hate him.
Joe:But accepting a pejorative like he's an anti-vaxxer, he's not an anti-vaxxer. He's had all the vaccines. I've had all the vaccines. He is about safe vaccines and what is wrong with that? What's wrong with talking about the actual content of a vaccine? Why are people afraid to talk about that instead of just calling a name and saying something? You know and this idea of worm in his brain, so like, really, are you honestly believing that this candidate that is garnering all this attention has some sort of a worm in his brain, like it's? It's? It's childish to think that these things can actually be considered as a truth. Um, but what I will say is, if people do want to learn more about him, kennedy24.com, just go to kennedy24.com.
Joe:There's a video segment you can click on it. It's divided by issue. Just listen for yourself. Listen for yourself. All us older people out there who have grandchildren who love this guy. Go find out. Why are your grandchildren interested in him? Go find out for yourself. He's a true Kennedy. His father and uncle couldn't be more proud of him. Those are the family members that count, and I guarantee you that they are looking down and smiling at this man of integrity doing what he's doing.
Vince:Yeah, and you know another point I would put on. That is that when people he speaks to these things that people are saying to him, he openly answers the questions that are brought forth to him. He talks about the brain worm thing. He talks about why his voice is the way it is. He talks about what happened with the bear. I mean, they're crazy stories but let's face it, we've all got crazy stories in our closet, we've all done crazy things and he's willing to talk about it. And I think you know, regardless of how I wind up voting, I think that is a sign of good character.
Joe:He's not dishonest, he's just got his own life and we all do so what about If all you're hearing about somebody is all the negative, but you notice that the same people who are smearing the negatives won't put a microphone in front of his face and let him speak for himself? Like that should raise some alarms and say what is going on here? Why are these people trying so desperately to discredit this guy and not give him a microphone and speak for himself? You know, again, it's personal responsibility. You have to ask yourself what's really going on here.
Vince:It's a personal responsibility. You have to ask yourself what's really going on here. Well, that's what I was just going to get to. That in a sense, because now, with this transition from, I mean, obviously one of the hits against Biden was that you know, to use the quotes his campaign in a basement and his unavailability to the press, and now we have a new Democratic presidential candidate who, as of today, hasn't done an interview with the press in whatever 21 days or however many days. It is no microphone in front of her other than a teleprompter. And you know, you ask the question what's really going on here? What is the fear of putting a microphone in front of? So why does a campaign how do I say this? How does a campaign run a campaign without letting their candidate speak to reporters? And why are they keeping Kennedy away from the microphone on the debate stage?
Joe:You know, it's just I think those are rhetorical questions, vince, but I think you're. You're highlighting the very issue and I think if you put the three of them on the stage together, um, you'll see. Mr kennedy is sincere like he. He's. He doesn't read from a teleprompter everything, everything. He's a brilliant man. This man brought a class action lawsuit against Monsanto. That is really what's responsible for calling attention to glyphosate and Roundup and the poison that it puts in our body when we eat food that has been sprayed with that toxin. You know you can't lead a lawsuit against a mega corporation like that and not be really smart. This is a smart man. In every issue that he speaks about and he speaks about pretty much all of them I find myself listening and saying, oh my God, that makes so much sense. Yes on Ukraine. Yes, makes so much sense. Yes On Ukraine. Yes On the Gaza strip. Yes On you know our food. Yes On what we need to do about our health. Everything that he talks about is sincere, from his heart, authentic and it's not scripted.
Joe:And the other two candidates, you can tell when they're speaking. Maybe Mr Trump likes to go off script a little bit, but it's some of the same. You'll never believe how great it is, it's the biggest, it's the best. That may be off script, but he's still using talking points. Mr Kennedy is all about speaking about the issues from his heart, because he understands them from his heart. Kamala Harris I don't even know yet. It'll be interesting to see what she has to say. They're they're certainly grooming her, so when she comes out, I guess she'll be as polished as they can hope for. Yeah, that's me talking negative about the other guys. I will tell you I don't like to do it either. Um, all I have to say is put all three of them on stage and you decide who the most sincere is.
Vince:Yeah, yeah, I think that's you know something. Now, what about the effort? Is there still an effort to get him on into the debates, or is that pretty much? I?
Joe:mean, of course that's the the and you say, you know, does he have a chance to win? That's his chance to win and the other side knows it and the corporate overlords know that. His chance to win is getting on stage with those other two candidates and when he does it won't be close Like the other two are going to finish. You know distant seconds and thirds, but I guarantee you, you put a microphone in front of him, in front of the people, and they're going to all start wondering why on earth haven't we heard more about this guy sooner?
Vince:no-transcript debate stream on his live stream, right? So he answered the same questions that were put to the other candidates and I mean I think to me that's fascinating. He should be on the stage. There's no question about it.
Joe:It's ridiculous that he had to do what he did, but he did it with a moderator and it was in front of a live audience and it was on a stage and he had a large screen. I don't know those probably a lot of people that don't know what happened but he had a large screen TV with, you know, the CNN live feed in the background and it became a longer debate than the actual one because what he did is they paused after the question between the two. They would hit pause and then the moderator would ask Mr Kennedy and he would cut him off after the same amount of time. And it was interesting. They literally were cutting him off or bringing him back to a point.
Joe:The moderator I forget his name, he's somebody who's been on the corporate media in the past but probably couldn't because he was speaking out too much, but I forget his name. But he was very good and it was interesting and it was probably. If it happens again, it's probably something that people should try to find. I think over 10 million people tuned in live to watch it. So it speaks volumes how well Mr Kennedy is polling and how much people really want to hear about the issues from people who aren't scripted.
Vince:And hopefully the next debate will. He will be live, and if he's not, I'm sure he'll be doing something exciting again.
Joe:Just don't understand why people wouldn't revolt if he, if he isn't on, you know how many ballots?
Vince:do you know how many ballots he's on currently?
Joe:uh, last I heard there. I mean there's official and then there's um the, the states where he's got enough signatures or has jumped through the hoops that are necessary. So that's part of the problem with becoming an independent candidate is that there are a lot of I don where he has done what he's needed to do to certify. Some states are pushing back. Obviously it's political to kind of upset the apple cart of how corporate and government cooperation is operating right now. So they don't want him on the ballots, but he's officially on 18 ballots. I think he's got enough signatures on 25 more. So 43 states that he's officially got enough and he's put in for certification and just waiting for the states to certify him. He swears this is the lawyer in him, but he swears that he'll be on all 50 states before the election. Let's hope that he will, because you really can't afford not to be on all of them.
Vince:But even 43 is pretty good ford not to be on all of them, but, um, even 43 is pretty good, yeah. Well, one comment about that is if you know the, the states are manipulating in such a way to keep him off the ballot. That just is a small example, even though it's a very big thing, of what is being done at the higher levels to influence the republican and Democratic votes.
Joe:Yeah, and what's wrong with America, like we always talk about Ross Perot? Ross Perot didn't have this problem, but you know he was a billionaire who was financing his own campaign, and so he had a lot of resources to do what he needed to do.
Joe:But even back then in the 90s to do, but even back then in the 90s, there was no real idea of keeping him off the ballot, like making it difficult for him to get on the ballot. And here we are in America today, and everybody knows it. Everybody knows that he's having difficulty getting on the ballot. Everybody knows that he's having difficulty getting a microphone in front of him. People know this, but they're accepting it. And this is. And then and then, the same time, they're talking about saving democracy.
Joe:Well, how in God's name are we? What is the democracy that we're saving, if an independent candidate named Robert Kennedy Jr, who's been a lawyer fighting corporate interests for 40 years, cannot get on the ballot in the United States of America? What is wrong with our system today? What is wrong with our system? People have to ask that and again, it's personal responsibility. We see it happening and unfolding in front of our eyes and yet we just kind of shrug our shoulders and accept it as the new normal. Well, it shouldn't be a normal. We should be able to have somebody named Robert Kennedy Jr on the ballot in every state. What are we afraid of?
Vince:We afraid of it winning.
Joe:I guess maybe that's what we're afraid of.
Vince:You know, joe, for over 55 years, you and I have had a lot of deep discussions about wondering, as we are friends, in wonder about many things, and I love your passion, I honor your passion, I honor your mission. We haven't had a lot of time, you know, to talk about some of the experiences. I really, as we wind this down, I'd love to hear about some of your firsthand stories that you might have from from doing all this, whether humorous or sad, or or a lot of it, you know, I will tell you.
Joe:So one of the funny stories that I like to tell people is that, you know, when I was out petitioning for signatures, it be, you know, it's like anything, you try to find the low-hanging fruit right. You want to go to a place where you think you're going to get the most people willing to sign. So you might go to a. Like, if there was a medical freedom rally, you'd probably want to go to that and there'd be a lot of people that would want to sign for mr kennedy. Um, if you went to someplace where they're more likely to be, you know, people that are are are for somebody else, it might be different. Well, I, I would go to farmer's markets and, you know, especially early on, and it would be quite a cross section of of America. I got, I got to the point where I started to become afraid. Again, this is a little bit of profiling, but I became a little bit afraid of older women, especially Caucasian older women. They just seemed to be the kind that would snap at me, you know, the most vigorously. And it actually got to the point where you know, because I would go out quite a bit on the streets looking for signatures, signatures. I almost cowered a little bit when I saw them coming like, oh, these people, they, they, they're gonna bark at me. Um, that that's kind of a uh, you know a funny story. Um, you wouldn't expect that, right, you would expect them to be kind of the sweetest, but when it comes to politics they're really dug in on their positions. Um, but, um, what I? What I found all right. So my personal experiences on the campaign trail are, first and foremost, I'm overjoyed by the passion of people who want to step forward and volunteer to work on a grassroots campaign that is, you know, america and democracy in action. People who want to step forward and just give of their time, give of themselves. And every day more people come forward, and for different reasons, for usually for an issue right, and Mr Kennedy speaks to them on the issue. So it's been really heartwarming and energizing to work with volunteers, other volunteers, on this campaign, and I will tell you. One really interesting story is we got a call from or both a call and an email from a woman, of a, of an autistic child who wants to get on the campaign and help in whatever way he can help. Mr Kennedy just loves him as a candidate, and so I sent a door knocker leaflets to them and and he goes out on a daily basis well, I don't know daily, but on a regular basis putting the door knockers about Mr Kennedy on on people's doorknobs in neighborhoods.
Joe:So it's been, you know it's been a mix. I there are some days I might come home in my way and so it might say, oh my gosh, you look beat. Know it's been a mix. There are some days I might come home and so it might say, oh my gosh, you look beat up. And it's true, because of the divisiveness out there and how dug in people are and how unwilling people are to just be open to new ideas, Sometimes I can get pretty discouraged about that.
Joe:I can certainly get discouraged when people want to talk to me about you know, the silly issues like him, you know, with a bear in the park or the park or worms in his brains and that kind of thing, the marginalizing discussion. It can get discouraging but for the most part it's been nothing more than invigorating and for me personally, knowing that I'm doing what I can, even if I'm shouting to the ocean, I'm doing what I can, it feels good at night going to sleep knowing that I've'm doing what I can. And it feels good at night going to sleep knowing that I've done whatever part I can.
Vince:You're making ripples, my friend, and we often use that metaphor. You know, ripples make waves, and waves, you know, hit the beach and that's what we swim in right, and so I commend you for continuing on in your ripple making capacity in the world. I know that you care greatly about making the world a better place for all of us, and you know, we all do.
Joe:I think we all do you know Vince.
Vince:Yeah, but I think you know doing something about it is again a personal choice. We do it in our own ways and I'm curious about the fact that we talk about people being anti-whatever have you found? You know? I don't want to get too much into you know family and all that stuff, but have you experienced personal attacks at all, Like Joe, what the hell's wrong with you? You know from somebody. You know regardless. You know people getting in your. What do you got that bumper sticker on your truck for? I mean, are you getting maligned in any ways?
Joe:And how do you deal with that? I will say this I've had a number of volunteers say to me that they don't want to put up yard signs, um, because they're afraid of the lies, or they don't want to put a bumper sticker on because they're afraid of their car getting vandalized. I haven't had anything like that happen yet, um, yet, um, and I've had, you know, the yard signs up for a few months and um, nothing. And I, you know, I think's, I think it's over played, I think people are, and I, and I think it's sad that we should be unwilling to wear a t-shirt in public.
Joe:I will tell you, when I wear this t-shirt in public, you know, I go to a grocery store, whatever, mostly I hear positive things. Maybe I might see an eyebrow go up, you know, and and distaste about my t-shirt, t up, you know, in distaste about my t-shirt, you know, occasionally. But so be it. You know it's my right to represent, but for the most part, I would say I get a good response because he's a good person and people who know about him, you know, are passionate about him and it's kind of a fun little club to be a part of People on the outside who want to, you know throw stones, that's fine, you know know, they're not literally throwing just another example of stones may break my bone, but names will never hurt.
Vince:It's just another example of all the things that we've been talking about.
Joe:Yes, so it's been pretty good. Actually, I will tell you, for me personally, it's been pretty good. It's more just the frustration of, of of the media, media and people's awareness and people's willingness to accept what they're being fed by what is obviously corporate interest. If there's one frustration I have, it's that I just feel like come on, people, there's enough information out there. Let's all wake up, let's all open our minds a little bit. That's the thing that I find the most frustrating.
Vince:I was just going to ask you, as we wind this down, what your advice would be to people between now and November. Is it fifth on the election? Sixth? Yeah, you know, but I think you just said it. Well, open your mind, get your information, vote for who you feel like voting for. You know, you hear campaigners out there now saying people should be free to marry who they want to marry and love who they want to love. I'm all for that. People should be able to vote for whoever they want to vote for. Please, please vote vote.
Joe:Be informed when you do. Try your best to be informed when you do. That's all. If I were, if I were giving advice, I would say try your best to be informed and really ask yourself is this single source that I've been using all these years, is that really the best way to inform me, and do they have other interests in mind when they're feeding me this information? It's a product. Information is a product, and if you really want to know I think there's a saying about that you have to go out and look. If you want to see, you have to be willing to look, and that's my advice Go, look for the information.
Vince:Well, is there anything else you'd like to say before we?
Joe:No what I would like to say is this was fun, Vince, and maybe we should start doing this more often again.
Vince:Well, we'll have 34 episodes under our belt and we did promise to come back on the air, and so thank you for all of those who have been with us for this time. We appreciate and you will be able to leave comments and feedback and let us know if there's anything else you'd like us to delve into. On behalf of Friends in Wonder. My friend in wonder, Joe, have a great day. I'm not sure what you're going to be doing today, but I hope it's joyful. Are you going to be campaigning today?
Joe:Most likely.
Vince:there isn't a day goes by that I don't do something, so yeah, well, get out there and keep the fires going, joe, and we will see you all again on Friends in Wonder.
Joe:Thank you, Vince. I appreciate the opportunity today. Thank you, Vince.
Vince:You betcha have a great day everyone. Thanks for joining us. You can find other podcasts by Friends in Wonder on Spotify and any of your other podcast streaming platforms or friendsinwondercom.