Open Heart Bypass Surgery (Part 1) -- Joe Reflects on Preparing for his Major Surgery

Joe Luther  0:04  
Okay, Jun 23 We've just finished a couple of our podcast additions or offerings to the world.

Vince Kern  0:16  
Nice morning, a very morning in very much alignment. It's funny, I was going to ask you what the date was today. It's also 2022. So it's June 23 2022. Yeah. And we're sitting here in the Birmingham studio. And you know, it's a it's, we enjoy as human beings the opportunity to have an immensely meaningful experience while we're on this little ball riding around at 17.3 miles per second. And the sun sustains us. The water sustains us. Our loved ones sustain us, we've got both of us. And humans are blessed with many people around them. And this is an interesting time for, for us things happen in life, and you're about to undergo something that is no, kind of a somewhat

Joe Luther  1:20  
invasive

Vince Kern  1:22  
invasive surgery. Yes, thank you, I, you know, pry it, you don't have to pry it out of you, because you're the guy who has gone through it. But it's, you know, to talk about it is a little bit difficult. And you wanted to kind of talk about

Joe Luther  1:35  
Yeah, I figured, as long as we're laying things down in audio form, I thought it would be a good idea to, you know, just talk about it. If nothing else, it'll be interesting for me to look back on 20 years from now to listen to and, and see where my head was. Yeah, maybe. You know, it's a little bit of a time capsule for me.

Vince Kern  1:55  
Yeah, time capsule of how you're feeling. So I, you know, I can't, people I saw I understand what you're going through. And you know, what, nobody really I

Joe Luther  2:04  
don't understand. Well, you know, I think it's funny is, you know, you talk to the surgeons, and and you think you're talking to somebody about changing the muffler in your car. You know, it's just like, oh, we do this, and we do that we do that. And, and I've heard you know, I've got a few doctors. Okay, I see what I'm doing. Yeah, we know what I'm doing. I'm doing open heart bypass surgery. They call it some sort of graft creation. I don't know there's a, there's an acronym they have for it. That I've been seeing on all my pre test forms called cabbage, CA, B, G. And I looked at them when they first used a cabbage. That's quite a man. That's the that's the acronym for what I'm getting cabbage. But, yeah, I mean, the classic one. And to be honest, I've had to think about this for since I was in my mid 30s. Because, you know, actually a little before that, because my mom died when she was when I was 26. And before she died as part of her medical, you know, therapy and in, in procedures. A doctor is asked, you know, do you have children and have they been tested to see if they have similar condition. And so we all did and, and I found out so before she died at age 26 That, you know, I had a very similar genetic predisposition to the condition she had which is hypo cholesterol premia. And, and that means that it doesn't matter literally, what I eat, or do. My cholesterol is, you know, off the charts. Interestingly, a professional tennis player from the 70s Arthur Ashe had had it the way my mom had it, so So there's like, heterozygous and homozygous, and I think heterozygous is the is the, no, yeah, homozygous is the worst word it means. Somehow she has it. She's got the double gene, and I just only got half of it, which might be the heterozygous but anyhow. Or the reaction, she had the same thing. So when she was a thin woman, and obviously Arthur Ashe was a very fit and trim person. You know, he was you remember him, right? He was a great, great tennis player. And both of their cholesterols you know, in a normal day, was in the six hundreds in mind and a normal day, even on a vegetarian diet. I went through all sorts of, you know, therapies, trying to get it under control, but is normally in the four hundreds and mid four hundreds. So I got I guess I got a little luckier than her. But where I wasn't as lucky is that women have some sort of predisposition to protection against arterial sclerosis until after they're done. menopause. So my mom kind of skated through her actually her dad died in his late 20s. I think. So, you know, who knows what he had, I don't I don't know a lot about him because he's kind of, there's some mystery behind him. But clearly, there was bad genetic genetics on their side of family because her to half sister or half siblings don't have the same condition. So probably passed down from her dad, and probably was part of the reason why he died young. But, so now I have half as bad. And so, but I've known that I've had it since, you know, in my mid 30s, when the kids were, you know, come along, I think, I think my wife at the time of Karen was pregnant with Stephanie, and sidenote, and to give her an app give me an idea of stress she was going through, she was pregnant with Stephanie, eight months pregnant with Stephanie when her dad died. And, and at the time, I was facing, you know, this, my there was, I had first been diagnosed with these heart blockages all during that time, so, and I think we were moving. Yeah, I mean, just, you know, all that together for a pregnant woman of eight months. But, yeah, that's while Stephanie was, you know, eight months turn but So anyhow, yeah. I was in my mid 30s, you know, and, and we looked at it multiple times, and they told me that because there were like, six blockages, and I was having a lot of symptoms. And but I was dealing with a cardiologist who I was begging, he was a great cardiologist, Karen found him for me. It's named William O'Neal. And

he told me at the time said, Well, you've got six blockages, and you know, this is after an angiogram. You know, we probably are going to take two procedures to clear those up, and most likely, there's going to be some form of restenosis from scarring afterwards. Back then, they hadn't even developed stents. So it was just balloon angioplasty. I was just begging him. I don't want bypass surgery at this age, because at the time bypass surgery only lasted for, I don't know, 2025 years max, some people less and I thought, well, Tisa, you know, what kind of life expectancy and I got? I got kids yeah, 30 some years old yours. Yeah. I mean, wife was pregnant, right? And I, you know, so I'm like, whatever we can do, let's, let's not do that, because I don't want to get on that roller coaster ride at 35 years old. So anyhow, fortunately, he was able, you know, he was one exactly like he said, to two procedures, and then had to come back a few months later, because maybe a year later, I don't know, six months later, to take care of the restenosis. But he told me at that time, he said, You know what he says this. If this doesn't work, I may be recommending you for bypass surgery, he says, but I got some good news. And I've been one of the pioneers of it. He says there's this new thing called stents. I explained to me that, you know, I think everyone knows what a stent is. So I'm not gonna waste time on that. But yeah, they're like these little springs. I

Vince Kern  8:12  
remember hearing about it for the first time. I was like,

Joe Luther  8:14  
wow, yeah. Right. And I thought, well, that sounds good. Because a lot of what was happening is you'd use these balloons, and they would, they would open up the, the, the artery, but they almost like when you pull on underwear to Hargett stretch. Yeah, they get, they kind of get flimsy a little bit, and they collapse and fall, fall, the underwear

Vince Kern  8:35  
falls or under to use and go out to bed. See?

Joe Luther  8:40  
You know, it's a different kind of embarrassment. But anyhow, so these little things kind of are like little, you know, springs that lock into place. So, hey, I said, let's try that. And he says, But he says, if that doesn't work, he says, You gotta get bypass surgery. Well, frickin thank God and hallelujah for Dr. William O'Neal. And him being a pioneer of those things, because literally, there weren't any, if I would have been going to another cardiologist at that time, it would have been very hit or miss, but probably more likely, I would not have gotten away with not getting bypass surgery then. So anyhow, did the stents they worked and I'm sure you remember, I ran a marathon after that, you know, thing once things went good and long come the 50s and probably the stress of knowing that I was having some life changing things going on, but whatever. You know, went through a divorce and was cut back on the treadmill of needing to take care of some blockages and for whatever reason, I guess, because now that I'm older, turns out these things, you know, the stents didn't work as well. They were close. I think it was hit or miss. Some of them were and some of them weren't. And I just I think I'm in over the last seven years, I may have had four or five procedures And this last one, when he went into look, my right main had closed 100%. And my left main, which he had extended before, by the way that was pioneering work to there were very few cardiologists, even stenting, the left, may they call that way, they graciously called that vein, the Widowmaker. Because we have a problem on the left knee, and apparently it, it feeds two thirds of your heart and you don't survive problems from that. So anyhow, when he was in there, most recently, my right main had 100% closed at a point where he had put a stent in, and my collateral arteries were keeping me alive. That's why I didn't have heart attack. And but he said, the, the thing they had him concerned, was my left lane was showing signs of, of closing again. So that's why he suggested bypass surgery. And, you know, first I took that as a kind of, like, I was depressed I was, I took it as a sign of failure. And I is, you know, I'm in very good health I've been, you know, watching what I eat, and my exercise and yoga and meditation and spirituality and married to the, you know, the woman of, you know, the best person I could possibly be married to now and in my life, and, you know, in, we're just in a great place. And so I'm thinking, why I don't understand why these things are still closing. And so I got depressed at first. And then. And then after I kind of grieved that I, you know, So anyhow, that was probably, well, that was I know what it was was April 29. Here it is. June 23. When he told me he thinks I need

Vince Kern  11:50  
almost only two months. That's not a long time. Yeah, let's say happens.

Joe Luther  11:54  
Yeah. But at first, I thought, well, he's an interventionist and I, you know, me, I'm, I'm a non conventional Western medicine believer, and I, you know, I listen, I might readily stand in line for it when I need it, because they're very good at interventions. I don't think they're as good with preventative care, you know, especially the way they dole out medications, and sometimes jump into procedures when you don't need it. So I always have been, you know, suspicious of him. That's why I had a second cardiologist, I'm not suspicious of him. I'm grateful for him. But I mean, I've always wanted a second opinion, like, is there something non invasive that I can do? So I know, after grieving a little bit, I decided to find out, you know, what other people think and talk to my non interventional cardiologist, and he looked at the written report, and said, Yeah, he says, you know, as much as I'd like to tell, you know, he said, but he did say, Joe, you're the perfect candidate to get this and, and you've gotten to the place in medical science now, where it's like bread and butter. And he says, I know, easy for me to say, because I'm not the one getting it. But he says, These doctors are so good at it now. And the technology is so good. And now we know, you know, years ago, we used to use veins. Now we're using arteries, and the kinds of arteries that they use now are, you know, from somewhere in the sternum area that that I guess, are a close enough match that they actually kind of become like the old ones, the main arteries, the especially. So what he told me is that there's probably take two arteries from that area and place them in the left main and the right main. And that that's kind of like now they're knowing because they've been using these arteries for almost 20 years. Now. They, they're not having problem with them. Like there's 100% success rate. Maybe some people are, but those who live good lifestyles, it's a complete cure. Whereas the veins that they were using the old days, only lasts for so long. So anyhow. So whenever I heard that, I thought, wow, you know, I still would like to hear there was there was another Second Opinion I was getting from, from a DAC in Dallas, then, you know, it was that was through a friend of mine, you know, Walter, he's a friend of mine, as well. Now, he's a neurosurgeon, you've met him. And, you know, and I even talked to the surgeon, you know, that they were recommending in Detroit here and I asked him, you know, point blank, you know, do I need this now, or is this something I can wait till till a long time from, you know, like, what about my collaterals and all that and he said, The problem is, that the longer you wait, the more likely it is that I might not even be able to do successful surgery on you. Because the places where I want to graph from in to, will become more and more compromised, I guess they just kind of shrink or winter because they're not getting fed the proper blood pressure they need because strong roots. Yeah. And so, you know, he said basically, I wouldn't wait much longer than a couple of months to get this done. So anyhow, but I also asked him, I said, Well, look, I can go to the Cleveland Clinic, I can go to the Mayo Clinic, like, I understand you're from the Cleveland Clinic, like, why wouldn't I want to go the Cleveland Clinic and he said, You know, I was at Cleveland Clinic. And I can tell you right now, they're great doctors, they're great surgeons, but you're gonna have multiple people probably during the operation, they're probably all good, but some of them are going to be learning. But with me, you're going to get me from beginning to end. And he says, I was at the Cleveland Clinic for 10 years. So you're getting a Cleveland Clinic, Sergent. It's just that this is where I am now. And he was referred to me by Dr. O'Neill, who I, you know, trust, you know, obviously, with my life, because he's been, he's been caring for my life for for a long time. And he helped me making these decisions along the way. He said that he let his mother go to this guy. And that's what all the other current cardiologists say. So, you know, a guy that can be there from beginning to end and be in Detroit, and, you know, make things a lot more convenient. So, anyhow, I shifted somewhere along the lines of there. And when I talked to my non Interventional Cardiologist to just a sense of surrender, and gratitude, because then I really began

to see wow, you know, I mean, when my mom died, she didn't have access to this, you know, and when I was 35, I didn't have access to this. And people today, who do have access to this sometimes have multiple other problems, you know, maybe their heart disease was caused by diabetes, and you know, they got kidney failure or whatever, like, there could be all sorts of other things going on. And I have this super healthy body. And that's what my non interventional cardiologist was, was trying to tell me, he's like, You are such a perfect candidate for this. Technology is so good, you are going to bounce back from this. And it's going to be like a whole new lease on life, you can literally stop worrying about your

Vince Kern  17:26  
heart arteries, which you've been doing for 30 some years now. Yeah, I've been

Joe Luther  17:31  
living with a cloud and especially the last seven or eight, even though I've had all these good things going on in my life. I still I still wonder, you know, I mean, talk about the good things in my life, Sonia, coming into my life, I sold a business, you know, I've got all this good health and my children are doing well, like all these good things going on in this new house in a beautiful neighborhood. I've got an opportunity now to travel and all these great things are happening. And in now, I'm as healthy as can be. And I'm getting this being given this opportunity to stop living with this, you know, kind of cloud that I've had around me. And so now I'm really, you know, the surgery is six days from now and I'm, and I'm really entering into this, you know, the sense of surrender, surrender to spirit, surrender to, you know, all of my spirit guides and animal guides and, you know, surrender to the surgeon surrender to, you know, modern medicine, but also gratitude to modern medicine, and especially Western medicine, which, you know, I sometimes defame you know, I'm grateful, totally grateful for my health. And in all of you think of, Vince, when you think of this as a wonder and awe, thing to think about when you think about all of our ancestors, you know, the supposin cavemen in the in the hunter gatherers, and in all of those people that had to, you know, dodge saber toothed tigers, and woolly mammoths, and whatever it is, to survive enough to, you know, to, to create offspring, the created offspring that created us, and then went through, you know, the inquisitions and the dark ages and, you know, Roman Catholic was all of our ancestors came through all of that, and then modern medicine, you know, and in all the things that got Joe Luthor to this point in life, where he has, you know, these tools in this healthy body with, you know, all of the things that he knows about the universe, thanks to the internet and all these things, like how can I not be anything more than grateful for what I'm about to do? And quick story? You know, Uncle Ralph, oh, yeah, we have a lot of enjoyable So, here's my, my mom's brother who's I think he's 81 now and he's a, he's the he would be the male equivalent of a spinster. Although he has been married and he does have kids, he brilliant man. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We I always teased him that he because we did have, we had it was his aunt and it was my great aunt. She was a spinster aunt trees, and I always tease him that he's in trees. But I love him. He's my godfather, and I call him on file godfathers Day or Father's Day, and talk to him and told them what was going on. And I've helped him through the hip surgery. Yeah. And you know how he can be. He can be pearls of wisdom. And just keep giving you more and more of it. You know, and I love him for that. And he, he said to me, he said, you know, he says, I know, it's not the same thing at all. But I, I avoided the hip surgery, hip replacement surgery for a long time, because I was just so worried about all those minimal complications that could happen. And I know that nine out of 10 go very, very well. But what about the 10th? One, I keep thinking, here I am living this independent life. And so he always just pushed it off, pushed it off. And he said, after he was coming out of anesthesia from having it done, you know, he knew at that moment, that it was a success. You know, he just knew for some reason, he said, it felt like angels were singing. And he said, he said, he just had this, this, this feeling of awe and rapture, that this thing that he had been fearing for so long, was unworthy of fear, and that he was just in this place of, of grandeur and in love and in gratitude for having it done. And now, you want to hear him talk about gratitude, you should hear him talk about his surgeon, he ended up having an emergency afterwards, and getting the other one done. And he was that the stars align that day for him to get the same surgeon in an emergency scenario. But he said the anesthesia for that was a little different coming out of that one than the first time but But I appreciate that story. Because that's kind of where I want to get to when the surgery is over is is this idea of the angels singing? You know, metaphorically or literally? And the spirits singing? And I think they will I think there'll be singing before I think they're singing now, if I would just open up to it.

Vince Kern  22:23  
Well, you know, that's, if I might say, one of the things that I've maybe not when we were younger riding around on our bikes being mischievous. But one of the things that I have always admired about you is when you decide to do something, or even when you haven't decided to do something, you do your homework, you're balanced about it, you look at all sides, you look at every argument for every argument against you, you try to live your life in a very balanced, meaningful way. And watching you go through this experience, watching you plan a trip, watching you, you know, do very important things. I've watched you gather all the facts of what to you know, look at it from not just a scientific way or a personal way, but and now you know, you've done that. And it does feel like the angels are starting to sing it feels like there's They're all gathering your friends myself, you know, for me, it's it's it watching this and you know, when you tell a friend, you're gonna do something like this. For me, it was right off the bat, you know, crying out loud. Why is this guy gotta

Joe Luther  23:41  
go through this? What's your love and empathy for me? Yeah, but

Vince Kern  23:46  
you work through that. And you say, and the cool thing is, is you did all this research and work and talk and you have all this. Your knowledge and information and it makes other people feel at ease as well, you know, so that we can take this journey with you, in a sense. And I think the goal for me, and I want to get to your question, great. The goal for me is to be able to just be calm and collected and in love and just send energy

Joe Luther  24:20  
needed and definitely get that from you. And we talked about how you can how you can help support. You know, it's funny when you were talking and I'm sorry to interrupt, but let's get back to your point. But I thought something. We just did a safety first podcast, right. And I was thinking, yeah, when you were kind of explaining how I how I weighed, you know, the pros and cons of things is a perfect example, to drive. The point home about our safety first podcast is like, there might be a little bit of balancing going on here when you're talking about somebody cutting open your chest, pulling it apart and working on your heart, but I'm doing it because it makes good sense. And I'm doing it with a sense of I'm wondering all and I'm also doing it knowing that it's going to help me be a better person. And so the whole point about what uncle Ralph said, and where I'm trying to get, you know, as I approached the last few days, I don't even know it's gonna be like, if to how I'm gonna sleep the night before the surgery. But I hope to be at a place of peacefulness, because I believe when I come out of that anesthesia, I don't know it's probably going to be a little heavier anesthesia than what he went through. But at least when I come back to, to my sense of awareness, I'm even before that, I just feel like, I have got the opportunity now to live life without a cloud on my head around my head, and into not limit myself, because of some lingering concern that oh, yeah, I'd like to take on, you know, a challenge like that right now in my life. But I don't know if that's such a good idea given, you know, my heart condition, you know, I can put all that out of my way, again, not live in fear, not live in this idea of, I need to be safe. I can live like the children.

Vince Kern  26:12  
Right. Right. So do you feel a piece? How are you feeling? That's, uh, you got, you know, I mean, this is,

Joe Luther  26:21  
you know, I mean, the other the other part of this is that, you know, I'm married to a immensely sensitive Empath, who is just unbelievably supportive to me, I'm so blessed to have her in my life. And, and so metaphorically puzzled to understand why I'm having difficulties with, you know, heart issues, while in a relationship with her, I do have an interesting, you know, explanation for that, because Spirit told me the answer to that. And it kind of comes from a little comment that people will make once in a while when they hear that I have, you know, issues that say you got a bad heart, I defend my heart every time say, the hell I do. I've got a great heart, this heart has been dealing with all of these procedures, and sometimes blockages, growing collateral arteries, and, and by the way, as part of this procedure, I got a test done an echocardiogram where they test the valves, and the surgeon said, oh, yeah, so while we're in there, we'll probably fix any of faulty valves you have Is there anything even like kind of half off, we'll just replace it while we're in there. Because it doesn't make sense to let it go get an echocardiogram, we'll see. I came back 100%, everything's fine. As far as I know, that's what I was told. Anyhow, that's what the report said, maybe you'll see something different when he goes in. But I mean, my heart has been good, it's got good muscle, it's got good everything, it's functioning perfectly. It's just that what I've been feeding the heart, you know, the blood vessels go into the heart, and you want to take a metaphor there. You know, living in fear is what kind of blocks us from living in love and living, you know, with our heart living living in my headspace, which is what I've been doing for such a long time. You know, I don't want to get into all that right now. But I've been, I've been living, you know, slightly in fear, like we all do, based on issues that I've been working on through therapy and in all sorts of healing. And in my relationship with Sonia, and all of that, I feel like I've got kind of, you know, behind me now, right on, I'm not, I'm not perfect yet. But at least now, I'm gonna give this opportunity to feed my heart with new vessels feed my heart with what we're doing in this podcast effort with, you know, with any kind of venture that I want to do,

Vince Kern  28:44  
you're gonna be a monster. When you're done with this, we're not gonna be able to keep you. I

Joe Luther  28:48  
might even be able to learn how to chip and golf.

Vince Kern  28:53  
But, listen, I've known your family for a long time, you've got a what? I'm trying to think of the number. But you've got three, three children, you've got a big family, siblings, three siblings, and lots of friends. You know? No, I'm

Joe Luther  29:10  
blessed. Yeah, what?

Vince Kern  29:13  
If you could say anything? I mean, right now, it's always you know, if you could say anything to all of those people. Well, I

Joe Luther  29:19  
mean, it's more than that. I do want to say this, just in case, just in case. And, you know, you can you can edit this out and we can edit this out if and just in case doesn't isn't necessary. But you know, having just gone through the death of Walter, very close friend who's like a brother was like a brother. And I know you didn't have as much of a relation. I mean, you had a brother like relationship with him too. And you've known him for really as long as I have it's it's just that you know, we you guys were very different guy like we talked about in our friend podcast. It's a different kind of best Yeah. And Father parent. Yeah. Yeah. And that was All intertwine and your dad Yeah. And, uh, but anyhow, having gone through it and seen it, and then gone through his funeral and in listening to the multiple eulogies really, that were given by friends that gathered together. You know, it's, it's okay. It's okay, if this is it, you know, because I have been blessed. You know, and it's not cliche blast, it's, it's like beyond measure blessed with the relationships I had. That includes with Karen, who I divorced. Because, you know, we accomplished a lot together. You know, my kids, I couldn't be more proud of every friend that I have. I mean, I've got I think I one of the reasons that Sonia and I, we got married, you don't want to keep it small as I couldn't pick a best man like that would have been impossible. You know, you Fortunately, you know, you and Paul, were there and, and one of my children were there, it was in the middle of a pandemic. So we kept it small anyhow. But no, I've just been blessed with so many people in my life, and I've lived life, you know, I don't want to use the pejorative with privilege. But I've been privileged to live life in the United States of America, with plenty of opportunities. And I feel like I've taken those opportunities, and I've run with them. And I've been, I've been blessed with abundance, with, you know, the talents that I have, and in the willingness to go out and do it. And, and even though I might criticize some of the things my parents did, I had great parents, you know, who, who obviously did a great job, and, you know, so I have nothing but gratitude in my life. So, you know, I know, I'm not going to be that 99.9 out of 1000, that doesn't come out of this. But if I do, you know, I'm at peace, I'm at total peace.

Vince Kern  31:57  
That's got to be I mean, wow, you know, to just try and answer that question, you know, of, of, what would you say to people, you know, I mean, you probably say different things to different people. Because, like you said, you know, we have different relationships and different ways of communicating with all our friends. But the one thing that that everybody feels, and it's, it's interesting when you go through something like this, whether, whether, especially if you're the person who's having the surgery, regardless of what it is, to watch all the dynamics at play, and everybody channels, their love in such meaningful ways, but they're all different. And so it's, it's, you know, and, like, what I was getting at before is, it seems like you've worked yourself through, you know, all this whole process. And now it's like, let's get on the ice. You know, it's time to get on the ice. You

Joe Luther  32:52  
know, if they call me right now and said, Hey, we just had a, we just had a cancellation you want to come in? Today, I would go in today. I mean, I'm ready. I really am ready for it. But I'm also looking forward to having a few more days to just continue getting into a better place of gratitude. That's, that's the only place I want to be right now is in a place of gratitude. Because that is where I am right? You

Vince Kern  33:15  
probably need some quiet like, you know, no, no, I mean, the news and all those other things just kind of become become you with Sonia.

Joe Luther  33:22  
Just be with Sonia. Yeah, you know, I was I was starting to, you know, talk about her, you know, I want to spend time where we're, we're just at peace with this whole thing. So that when I, when I go in I'm, I'm the most, you know, receptive organism, you know, complex organism that that surgeon can work on? And I think I am I'm, I'm actually very much looking forward to what it's going to be like, on the other side of this.

Vince Kern  33:51  
Yeah, you? Well, you'll probably feel better physically. I mean, you'll have more stamina, I think so you might even be able to hike.

Joe Luther  33:59  
Paul won't be able to use any excuses.

Vince Kern  34:02  
You might be able to keep up with Paul for that

Joe Luther  34:04  
diagnosis, and probably Nah,

Vince Kern  34:06  
man, oh, this is such a deep and, and, you know, I mean, it's amazing that you're brave enough to just sit down and talk about Well,

Joe Luther  34:15  
no, seriously. I mean, the reason I did this is not really to put together a podcast, but to, you know, just have something that you know, somebody can if somebody wants to, they can listen to it,

Vince Kern  34:25  
you know, well, you got a lot of proud things, you've accomplished a lot, you've as a person. And I think the reason people accomplish things in business or in whatever it is, that is, you know, of the of the world so to speak, is because they're accomplished it looking at themselves and treating others the way they would like to be treated. And

Joe Luther  34:52  
yeah, yeah. Well, I appreciate if people were to saying what would you want written on your tombstone in one way Word of I mean, man, I would I would struggle, but I think the one word that that comes to my mind would be optimist. Because, you know, I mean, whenever you whenever you approach any situation, you can look at it, you know, from a negative standpoint, and you can look at it from a positive standpoint, you can say that the earth is an unmitigated mess, or we can say that the Earth is, you know, the greatest miracle in the universe. And, you know, maybe both are true, but I prefer to look at just the latter and not, I mean, I recognize the messes, but, but in reality, it is true when there isn't a maths, it's just our perception would make it a mess, because it is, all you have to do is ask an astronaut that's had an opportunity to stand back and look at it, right is nothing but a miracle. And I, you know, I consider my life is nothing but a miracle. And so, I am very grateful. And, you know, that's pretty much where I want to leave it.

Vince Kern  36:02  
Well, thanks for being brave enough to sit down and do this.

Joe Luther  36:06  
My pleasure. Thank you for helping me