Shamanic Healing: With Special Guest Sonya Luther

Vince Kern  0:00  
Welcome to another friends in wonder podcast, the place where we invite you to wander with us about meaningful topics without judgment or limits. Brought to you by two lifelong friends looking for insights through a lens of how can this help and Joe Luthor, and I'm Vince Kern, and we're your hosts. Now let's wander and wander together.

Joe Luther  0:24  
Hey, Vince, how you doing this morning? Hey, I'm doing great, Joe. It's exciting to be here. And we've chosen an exciting topic I think for this week. Yeah, one that's near and dear to our hearts. That's for sure. Yeah, it's something. First of all the topic is we're going to talk about shamanism, shamanism and shamanic healing. Yeah, and it's something that thinking back on it has been around for, since hunters and gatherers and of for a long, long time in human history since before recorded written history, that's for sure. Right. And some of the pictures the oldest pictures they have on walls in Australia, indicate shamanism paint cravings. I've been reading a book about paint carvings lately and they talk about the or possibly the origin of shamanism, but of paintings Yeah, okay. Yeah, paintings. Yeah. And, you know, for me personally, and I would love to hear how it worked for you. But I recall, now that I know what shamanism is about experiencing it when I was young, and not really knowing that I was experiencing the basic tenants of the connection. Well, you know, it's funny, because when you try to describe something like shamanism, it's difficult to do because it's pretty experiential. And, and we know that historically, it was a big part of human evolution, because, you know, the, the pictures and paintings that they have on wall that go back, so long, depict some form of spirituality, which we can refer to as shamanism. But, in reality, some people were practicing something in a spiritual nature and others were practicing something else. And, and we tried to group it all together by calling it shamanism. And so it's, it's hard to really define what shamanism is right? And we'll be talking to a guest later on that can help us go down that path of wonderment. I remember, when I was young, I just remember a few things that really connect connected me to a spiritual feeling you're sitting out in nature at my grandparents cottage and a forest of pine trees and feeling that there was something that was singing to me or speaking to me, and I just didn't quite understand the notes and the words, and, and then learning later on to connect to spirit and open and, and, and began to understand what that was, what you were feeling was obviously very profound. And so you knew it was important. You just didn't know what it was right? And I wanted more of it. And yeah, I'd go into a church with, you know, with my family, and I would feel a similar spiritual

Vince Kern  3:17  
presence, but I wasn't. But I didn't understand that language, either. Necessarily, it was an interesting experience.

Joe Luther  3:24  
Right. And that is because when we talk about the spiritual, we're talking about something that's difficult to measure. And it's experiential for each person.

Vince Kern  3:34  
So when we talk about shamanism, so this is something that through the years, I began to get some exposure to, and anthropology classes and trips, we went to a trip to Hawaii ourselves. And I just read more and more about it. And I remember reading some books, and it was so fascinating that that the ability to open up yourself and receive spirit. And you know, you talk about spirit animals and spirit guides, and there's a whole cadre of things that apparently are out there just waiting to help you. And so for me, the more I learned about it, the more it made sense of things that I didn't quite understand when I was younger, spirit animal, for instance, you'd see an animal in your backyard. That's not supposed to be there necessarily by you know, it's not species to this area, but all of a sudden, it's showing up and it's showing up regularly. And it's it's, you're getting wisdom from it. Those are things that, you know, when you start thinking about it makes sense, but not necessarily the way we're brought up to believe.

Joe Luther  4:42  
Well, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. And so you wonder, Is it a coincidence that suddenly I'm starting to see these unusual animals or is it more something of serendipity or a sign? And I think that's what our ancestors had. experienced. And and I know that's at the heart of shamanism, and that's opening up to and accepting and being receptive to the signs of nature that you see. And certainly, you know, an eagle has powers that are different than a human being has. And you know, there's I mean, that would be true of all animals. But when we were primitive, and I say in quotes primitive, but you know, ancient times, we were looking to various sources for answers, like, to the sun for answers, or to the clouds or to animals. And I'm sure that when we were hunters and gatherers, there were signs that were so obvious that the, that being receptive was the best way. And in now, of course, with modern science and in civilization and organized religion. A lot of that's gotten repressed. And so it's still there. It's still available to us. But it's kind of taken a backseat to more organized things in modern society.

Vince Kern  6:18  
Sure. Medicine being one of them. I think the shamanic shamanic approach is to use natural medicines to to heal physical and the motor hurts as much as possible, right? Yeah.

Joe Luther  6:33  
Yeah. So there's a lot of things that, you know, kind of replaced What was with us all along. And I think the interesting thing and and the reason I think it's so much fun to talk about this now, is that it's not an either or, it may be became an either or, at some point during evangelism times where, you know, the thought was, you had to erase one and substitute the other. But the reality is, and I'm here, to say it firsthand. You can be devoutly religious if you want to, and still be a shamanic practitioner, right. And

Vince Kern  7:11  
you've done a lot of training in shamanism. In fact, you're a trained shaman yourself.

Joe Luther  7:18  
Well, yeah, I mean, obviously, that's kind of Yeah, I, we took classes. My wife, Sonia and I took classes a few years ago, in, in our travels to Hawaii. As part of our travels, we wanted to see what other activities we could do while we were in Hawaii, and, and we looked into various, you know, spiritual, like retreats and whatnot that we could do. And we found that there was a shamanic practitioner who did both shamanic healing and shamanic teaching. And, and we utilize that during one of our trips to Hawaii. And, in fact, we liked it so much. We went back to Hawaii, what, what a trouble that was to have to go back to Hawaii a few times. But it was really the subsequent times. The main reason was that we wanted to keep studying and learning we got involved with students that were following a similar path, and it was very good. And what it was Vince is it was doing exactly what you said earlier, it was taking that that resonance or or that that note in nature, that we were feeling profoundly we didn't understand what it was. And it was understanding it in a more historical and a more, I guess, definable way

Vince Kern  8:45  
and incorporating into your life and integrating it into your

Joe Luther  8:51  
into becoming a graduated shamanic practitioner, I guess, you know, and the reason I chuckle about it is because obviously, you know, you don't have to go to a class to be a shamanic practitioner, there's obviously there were no classes 30,000 years ago, and, and I think what I loved about what we learned is that it's, it's available to everybody. You don't have to be a special, you know, kind of medium to, to practice shamanic shamanism in general you it's really very experiential, and anybody can do it.

Vince Kern  9:32  
And I think today in the environment we're in people are looking for more maybe more holistic ways to improve their life and be better and I think that the shamanic healing practice itself is possibly seeing a resurgence in that in that people are recognizing its its value, and and power and, and looking back and saying And this is something that's worked for a long time. It can still work today. And we're fortunate today to have a guest who is a practicing shamanic healer.

Joe Luther  10:09  
Yeah. And it's she's very near and dear to my heart too. So yes, Sonia, she'll Sonia and I took classes together. And while I was fascinated, to go through the course, to kind of self heal, and to learn more about it. Sonia had a different calling, I think, and she will, we'll let her talk about it. But she's, she's taken the same course, and has just run with it. And she's got books and books and books and books on it. And, and now she's a practicing shamanic healer herself. And, and I'm very excited to be able to interview her with you today. So welcome, Sonia.

Vince Kern  11:00  
Yeah, welcome. Welcome to the studio.

Sonya Luther  11:02  
Hi, guys. Thank you for having me.

Vince Kern  11:04  
It's a pleasure. So Sonia, you have had a pretty interesting career arc for yourself since since you've begun your career span. And maybe just tell us a little bit about that. I know that you got in involved in the shamanic practice, probably at a younger age than then Joe. And I think it's something that's been with you for a long time, but maybe you can talk a little bit about your background and how you got into it. And we can start there.

Sonya Luther  11:34  
Okay, well, I was a very spiritual child. So I

was too close to the mic. So I was very spiritual child. So I, you know, when I first came into the world, I remember at a very, very young age, like before, crawling, just kind of freaked out by the energy of the earth after coming from, you know, heaven. So, you know, I was, I didn't have a lot of people around me who understood what I was going through. So I think I reached for Spirit at a very young age, because I didn't feel like I had any other option, which actually, it turns out is a blessing.

Because Spirit, yeah, there isn't a greater teacher than spirit. So.

Joe Luther  12:27  
So when you said at a very early age, you are feeling things. You're talking about you being an empath. Yes,

Sonya Luther  12:34  
I am definitely an empath. So when I walk into a room, the more crowded it is, and the more energy coming at me, the more overwhelming it used to be before I was able to put up boundaries between myself and that energy.

Joe Luther  12:48  
So an empath is somebody who feels other energies,

Sonya Luther  12:52  
other people's feelings, emotions, you know, and not a lot of people walk around with the most positive emotions. Well,

Joe Luther  12:59  
there's a lot of anxiety. So you're picking up everything? Yes, you may be picking up love, you maybe have anxiety. I've said you were picking up earth energy at an early age to you just you were you were tuned in. You didn't know exactly what it was.

Sonya Luther  13:15  
No, I didn't know exactly what it was, you know, when we started studying, although I had read a lot of spiritual books, that it had answered a lot of my questions, but when we said it started studying shamanism, that's when a lot of things really fell into place. And I had a greater understanding of what was happening to me. So that was a blessing to

Vince Kern  13:38  
so you had spirit with you at a very early age? Yes. And talk a little bit about sort of the path from not recognizing it to recognizing it. I mean, we've talked a little earlier about spirit animals and how they just sort of appear. And, and I wonder, did you have the same experience where you started experiencing things and you didn't quite know what it was, but that you knew something was there? And how did you know how did that was that path for you?

Sonya Luther  14:06  
Well, when I was younger, it was just a voice. It wasn't animals yet. It was just a voice reassuring me that everything was going to be okay. And then as I got older, early 20s, maybe late teens, you know, I started you know, when I would ask questions to myself, so I started with the birds like I would see birds flying in certain patterns. And, and they would be answering my questions. Not necessarily with words themselves, but with the feelings that came from the way they were flying. And then in my early 20s, my first fear animal showed up which was an owl. I just started seeing owls everywhere, and I knew they were protecting and guiding me.

Vince Kern  14:56  
And so when you said that the emotions were coming through their flight patterns. Yeah, that's an interesting. Yeah. Interesting thing. Can you describe that a little bit? Can you feel it? Now when you're thinking about it, I can

Sonya Luther  15:08  
feel it. It's very, you know, it really depended on what questions I was asking. And I don't you know, I do they're not It's not intellectual, it's feeling. And so yeah, it's intuitive. It's feeling It's experiential. Yeah. It's really hard to put into words.

Joe Luther  15:33  
Well, that's what's interesting, when Vince and I were kind of framing this topic today, we were talking about how we understood something deep was happening, but we didn't understand we, we couldn't define it, right. And what's interesting about shamanism, is that, you know, we do kind of violate what it is by trying to define it in the first place, because it is more experiential. But if we're going to talk about it, I guess we have to give words to it. And,

Sonya Luther  16:00  
and as you go deeper into shamanism, you can actually have verbal conversations with your spirit animals and spirit teachers. So you can put it into words at that point is that

Vince Kern  16:14  
is that where the altar sort of the other form of consciousness comes into play? Because so I remember in when I first started learning about shamanism and anthropology, they talked about the shot every night, there would be a gathering in in the of the tribe and they would all come into this tent and the shaman would go into an altered state people would bring their issues to the shaman and, and he would, or she would go out and speak to their spirit guides and then give answers or, or give feedback. So when you say people can access that in conversation, is that what sort of journeying is all about or?

Joe Luther  16:50  
Yeah, that's a good, that's a good segue, we should talk about what is shamanism in general. And what you I think you're talking about when Estonia and I studied it, Sonia, and I studied it, it was they call that non ordinary, non ordinary reality. Right? Yeah. And, and so when you quote unquote, journey, you are making a spiritual journey into a reality. That isn't our ordinary reality. So our consciousness is going somewhere. That isn't part of our ordinary reality.

Vince Kern  17:24  
So Sonia, I guess, you have a practice. You do shamanic healing for people. And it's very successful and compliments on that. But But talk a little bit about what that is. I mean, so somebody comes to your website, and we'll talk about that give the address later. But then they're wondering about shamanism. What would you say to them?

Sonya Luther  17:47  
And are you talking about what the actual procedure is? That we go through for shamanic healing? Well, like

Vince Kern  17:55  
why would somebody benefit from a shamanic healing? What Yeah, and what what what would happen and how that works?

Sonya Luther  18:03  
Well, how somebody would benefit would be on several different levels. And I don't like these words I'm about to use but the only ones that I know so far, but the shamanic healing goes in at a cellular level to heal you. It's not just you know, talk therapy, sometimes it's just it's very in your intellect. Whereas shamanism can go right into your cells and heal wounds that you've had, for a very long time, even sometimes past life wounds. But the process is in there are several different processes that can and do happen in the healing. The how the light body works is you have your crown chakra at the top of your head. And in a healthy Light Body, the creator consciousness, God consciousness, whatever you want to call it comes in through that crown chakra. And in a healthy light body, it goes all the way through your body, into your feet, half of it going into Mother Earth and the other half wrapping up around you like a protective barrier around you. But often that barrier has holes in it whereas like your Creator consciousness can be coming in through the top of your head and it might go out through your neck may be feeding a narcissist in your life may be feeding an abusive person because they there are certain people who steal light from others because they are unable to access their own even though if they worked on themselves, they wouldn't be able to access their own. And so you don't want your light going to other people. You want to keep it inside that continual circuit circuit for yourself. There's also soul retrieval. So a lot of us are walking around In this world, literally not whole, because when traumas happen in our lives, little pieces of us will break off and either stay at the site of the accident or at at the site of the abuse that took place or sometimes other people will steal parts of ourselves, usually, it's not conscious. And as a practitioner, and with the help of the spirit guides, we can go back and we can gather those soul parts and give them back to the person and literally make them more whole. And there are a couple other, so

Joe Luther  20:43  
that's what they call soul retrieval. Yes, that's for you. So basically, you just kind of described healing the light body. And, and soul retrieval, there's probably a lot of other types of shamanic healing, yes, that, that we can do. So but then, let's go back to this concept of, of guides, so we have, we have power animals or, or animal guides. And then there's also spirit guides. And then, when we journey, we go and work with those guides, yes. So.

Sonya Luther  21:20  
So once you have your guides and know who they are, you might have them and not know they're there. And they're literally waiting for you to ask for help. But when you're aware of them, and you actually have a relationship with them, you can go journey to them, either in the lower world or the upper world. So in a journey, you also again,

Joe Luther  21:40  
just to make that clear, we're talking about in non ordinary reality, when you're journeying you leave your body, yes, there's there's a lower world. And that, as I know from our trainings, typically where the animal and plant guides are the more earthly kind of guides, and then in the upper world, is where the more spirit type guides are. And, and then there's also the middle world,

Sonya Luther  22:07  
right in the middle world, you do not want to travel unless you're trained and well protected. But you can travel, you can go down or up if you're untrained. And try to connect with your guides.

Joe Luther  22:20  
Yeah. And the Middle World. The reason you don't do that is because it's just a little bit trickier and challenging. The Middle World is really isn't our Yeah, yeah. Where we live? Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like our, our, it's more ordinary reality. But when you're journeying, you're doing it in a spiritual way. So you can actually come across a lot more treacherous type entities, when you're in the middle world. And that's why Sonia says you need to be careful, it's very easy. It's, it's much like just praying for any individual to go find your power animals or to or to talk to your spirit guides. That's pretty easy to do. And anybody can do it anytime. Yeah, there's methods on how best to do it. But it's very easy to access. And you can probably easily access the middle world too, but you need to be careful, it's not something you want to do. Because you are more vulnerable to less than benevolent. Spirit energies when you're doing that. Exactly.

Vince Kern  23:30  
So let me ask you a couple of things that I'm really interested in. And first of all, you talked about the light body and the flow of through the chakras. Is light sort of a meta is it same as energy? I mean, it's it's kind of is it the same thing? Is it yeah, basically talking about the energy flow and good energies and flowing and yeah, and that so that makes sense. Now a person that comes to you for a shamanic healing, you kind of describe the process, so you're going to work with them, and you're going to work in the non ordinary world to help that person. Yes. Do you also teach them how to journey? Is that something that

Sonya Luther  24:11  
I haven't gotten into teaching yet, but I refer them to my teacher, if they're looking for that

Vince Kern  24:16  
they're looking to do that. So so. So again, coming from the lens of, I've never had a shamanic healing, what would my experience be like if we contacted if I contacted you

Joe Luther  24:28  
walk us through the process where you actually practice healing for somebody.

Sonya Luther  24:34  
And so, you know, they'll fill out a contact form, we'll set up a time to talk your website. Yes. And my website, we'll set up a time to talk. And we'll just talk about what they want healed. And we'll go into maybe past traumas they have had, just so I can feel their energy and it's not necessarily needed, but I feel like it's beneficial just to get more detail so that when I'm in the journey I can ask the spirit guides more specific questions about what they need healed. On another day, I will do the journey, just by myself without them on the phone, we'll go get their spirit and bring them to the upper world where my healing room is in non ordinary reality, and then do those things that I've already explained. Plus, there's a lot more. I mean, it might take too much time to go through all of it, but and then after the healings done, I'll write up everything that the spirit guide said, you know, there's new agreements, you know, when you're traumatized, you'll make an agreement that isn't true. But because you made that agreement, you'll and so you'll get rid of old false agreements and self fulfilling false Yeah. And you'll be given new positive, life affirming agreements. And you might you often be given a spirit guide. And then after I write it up, send it to the client. And I usually wait a week, I tried to wait a week. And then if they want another conversation about questions they might have about what happened in the healing.

Joe Luther  26:20  
We'll talk about that. You wait a week, because it's the idea is to let it integrate. Yeah,

Sonya Luther  26:24  
but the healing will be integrating for several months. But the client will usually feel it within that first week. And so they might have more questions. So I'd like to let it integrate at least a little bit before we talk the second time. Yeah. Interesting.

Joe Luther  26:43  
And just So to clarify, so you when you do this, it's you can be doing with somebody all over the world. Really? Yeah. Because you're doing it via phone. And the intake form is on the internet and non

Sonya Luther  26:57  
ordinary reality. There's, there's no time or space,

Joe Luther  27:01  
right? So it's really called a distancia. Yes, yeah.

Vince Kern  27:04  
How do people eat? So they get this feedback? And it's a new agreement. And you have to integrate that agreement? Yeah. Well, how do you do that?

Sonya Luther  27:16  
That's what the healing does that the person, you know, their intention to get the healing is really all they need to do on their side. And then the spirit guides do the healing. And that's what will help the new agreement integrate into the client

Vince Kern  27:36  
integrates into their, their energy level. Yeah, again, it's like you said, it's not an intelligent thing. It's not it's not an ego thing. It's a whole body kind of healing experience, right. But it's

Joe Luther  27:47  
like any healing. Vince and I, I've done both I've, I've healed through the shamanic practice, and I've done traditional therapy with social workers and modern psychologists and that kind of thing. And, but it's like any of them, if you, if Sonia's guides do a wonderful job of healing somebody and in gathering up soul parts that were taken from a narcissist, and then are given these great new agreements, to not allow that to happen again, but they don't do the work, they, they very quickly go back to their old ways of, of the old agreement, you know, then the healing might not last as long. So you've got, you've got the healing that's being done for you. But you also have to do some of the work yourself to break the chain of, of going right back down the same rabbit hole. And it could be so many things,

Sonya Luther  28:54  
and 90 95% of the people that come to me are really wanting a healing. And so they're already doing the work. It's just that 5% Who like, have the mentality of give me a pill to fix me? I don't want to think about it and where they get the tough clients. Yeah.

Joe Luther  29:14  
Yeah, well, I was like that in some of my therapy sessions. He just give me all the answers right now. We

Vince Kern  29:21  
just want to be better. Yeah, so what do people say to you? I know and I don't want to get you know, too. Personal with people specific things. But what do you generally find you've had a lot of you've been doing this now for several years. Your long client list from all over? What are some of the more interesting feedback that you get from this from afterwards?

Sonya Luther  29:45  
You know, there's only so many issues, you start to you realize, you know, how, you know, it seems like people have tons of different issues, but they really can't Trying to stem from the same, you know, handful. And so the feedback is often very similar, I feel lighter, I feel more whole, I feel more connected, I feel happier, I feel more grounded grounded is definitely a thing that people need these days, which is part of the healing. You know, they just feel better.

Joe Luther  30:24  
Yeah, interesting. So more connected to that light body and power. Because you can imagine that if you're light energy in this aura that you discuss with the, with the energy, the light energy coming in, through grounding down through earth, and then, you know, circulating back through and I know, they have a lot of modern day photography, that that actually shows light bodies in a more measurable form. But if that's interfered with, then just like anything, you know, if you've got a short circuit in anything, it's it's going to feel discombobulated. And when you clear that up, and in that energy flows better. It's just like, practitioners that open chakras and in various blockages that you have. It can feel good, as long as you keep doing the work to, you know, to to allow that to continue. And I I imagine I mean, listen, nobody's perfect, right? We we all need to be tuned up once in a while. So do you get repeat clients or? Yeah, no. Yeah, that's definitely and referrals,

Sonya Luther  31:36  
referrals, yes, kind of client. And also, besides feeling better, things start working better in their lives, they get a job, they like better their boss leaves that they didn't like, they're, you know, abundance opens up more to them, their relationships get better. So it's not just feeling better, but when your wound is healed, then spirit doesn't have to push on you to keep healing it because it's healing.

Vince Kern  32:03  
Yeah, yeah. You know, you

Joe Luther  32:06  
can begin becoming who you are supposed to be that meant to be.

Vince Kern  32:10  
Yeah, we spend so much time healed or unhealed, the tendency is to be hard on ourselves,

Joe Luther  32:18  
you know, I mean, or just protect and defend. And yeah, and avoid. And

Vince Kern  32:24  
let's face it, this is a difficult time to be living in and maybe, what do you think about? Do you feel a sort of a resurgence? Do you see that out there in in your field?

Sonya Luther  32:36  
You know, a resurgence of more people seeking this kind of

Vince Kern  32:39  
people being willing to be more open to it? Well, because

Sonya Luther  32:43  
I don't know what it was like, before I was a practitioner, I would assume just based on like, the stereotypes of baby boomers that maybe that's true. But we also had that resurgence in the 70s, where peace and love and people were looking for alternative healing modalities. So questioning authority and Dawn. Yeah, so I don't know if it's a resurgence or, I mean, we are not to go off topic, but we are going into the Age of Aquarius, which I think is a more healing age. So maybe possibly, I think so. That's good. Yeah. Because

Joe Luther  33:20  
Age of Aquarius

Vince Kern  33:22  
is dawning. Yeah,

Joe Luther  33:23  
I know. It's already done. Well, what else? I think Yeah. Well, you know, that's an interesting topic, because I think what we're, you know, when you talk about the 60s and the 70s and the question, authority movement, I think that's really one of the interesting issues with shamanism, is that some people think that if you go down the path of shamanism, you're maybe somehow being Herot heretical to your organized religion. What do you I mean, what do you say to that?

Sonya Luther  34:04  
Your shamanism is inclusive, so they shamanism that doesn't matter what religion you can do both you can be Jewish and you can do shamanism. You can be Catholic, and you can do shamanism. They go together that doesn't leave anybody out. And, you know, there's so many paths to God, right? So if they're inclusive, it doesn't,

Joe Luther  34:30  
yeah, it's not a violation of your inner compass to do this. In fact, it may be a violation of your inner compass not to do it.

Sonya Luther  34:39  
And I think shamanism gives you sovereignty to, to connect directly with spirit with God without any interference, and so it empowers you.

Joe Luther  34:50  
Right? There's so much we don't know too, right? I mean, scientists are finding that the more they get into this quantum Physics, the more they realize they don't know. And

Sonya Luther  35:04  
and the more they run into spirit, right, right up against spirit. It's what

Joe Luther  35:09  
Einstein phone. So, yeah, and I don't think it has to be exclusive. There isn't one answer and there isn't one. Discipline. That's correct. It's all inclusive. Yeah.

Vince Kern  35:21  
So it's safe to say that shamanism isn't a religion. It's a spiritual practice. Yeah, your way of life. And so if you incorporate multiple modes of spiritual practice, you're obviously going to benefit more. I mean, it could be yoga plus Pilates plus shamanism and shamanic journey. Now, how, how would people learn how to journey let's say they go through one of your healings, and and they and they understand what you did? And they say, Okay, well, you know, Can I can I journey? How do I? How would they find out more about that?

Joe Luther  35:58  
Oh, there's books. Right. So I mean,

Sonya Luther  36:00  
there's the way of the shaman, the way of the Peaceful Warrior. Oh, but that doesn't show you how to journey the way of the shaman. Oh, real teach you. How's

Joe Luther  36:10  
that? Turner? Yes, yeah. And then there's also Sandra Ingerman. There's a number of actually, probably some of the hippies of the 70s. Who, cuz I know, Harner is and I think Sandra Ingerman as well, that got into it, and wrote a lot of books on it. So there's a lot of tools and resources out there. Yeah. And then send them to why. Yeah, right. Yeah. You go see Scott. Right. There's so there's a lot of self help. And even on your website, I think you refer to a number of the books. Yeah. It wouldn't be Your name

Vince Kern  36:45  
of that website, by the way.

Sonya Luther  36:47  
Sonya shamanic healing Sonia's shamanic

Vince Kern  36:51  
healing.com.com.

Joe Luther  36:53  
Well, without having to spell all that out. Sonia is with a why but without having spelled it out. We'll have references to it in this podcast. So anybody who wants to find out more can go to our website or any of our platform tools and find it there.

Vince Kern  37:11  
Yeah. Well, this has been a great pleasure. Thank you for being with us today.

Sonya Luther  37:15  
Thank you for having me. All right. Wonderful. Thank

Joe Luther  37:17  
you, baby. It was good to see you in our studio, too. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, and we'll be back to dissect this.

Vince Kern  37:25  
So there you have it.

Joe Luther  37:27  
Yeah, that was awesome. Of course, I'm a little biased, but I think she's the best shaman I've ever met.

Vince Kern  37:33  
Well, it is something that is part of our lives, all three of us, and many people's lives around the globe. And I can speak personally, to my experience that learning about shamanism. And to the extent that I practice journeying in contact, my spirit guides, which are really always around me, it's just how I opened myself up to it. Right. Right has been really life changing in a lot of ways for me, enriching, right, very enriching. It explains a lot of experiential things that I didn't understand before. You know, you can listen to the wind and get in that, that spiritual opening and understanding and calming and understanding that, you know, we're all part of one thing here, it's, it's a universal thing we're part of

Joe Luther  38:28  
right. Well, and I think two events that, you know, things in modern society haven't really given us some of the results that were promised, right, you know, that science and medicine and technology is going to make our lives better. Certainly, science and technology, and medicine has made some parts of our lives better. But some might argue that getting away from some of these more traditional modalities have interfered with the happiness and enjoy that we as humans are meant to experience. And so what I enjoy about this topic and in about encouraging people to look more into this is that it's, it's there for everybody. And it's available to anybody, it doesn't matter what type of religion or no religion, or what your belief system is, it's there for you and in certainly, it. It's been a big part of our evolution as human beings. So you know, some people might say that it needed to be improved upon with modern, you know, ways of thinking, but I just, I don't think it's one or the other. It's It's not that one erases the other, maybe, maybe it happened historically. But what I think is important is that we, we give it a chance to be a part of our lives again.

Vince Kern  40:15  
Yeah. Well, and, you know, for me, connecting with spirit is something that is now always available to me, it's a question of, Do I take advantage of it? Right, and it's their spirit guides, spirit animals, that they want to be a part of your of your existence, they want to be a part of your growth. And so to call them in and invite you along, it's just like having an entourage of, of, you know, walking into the club, right? I got my peeps with me, I got everything's good. I'm walking, but, but it's, it's, it's a practice. And it's an it's something that you have to do and, you know, regularly because that's when it gets really exciting.

Joe Luther  41:05  
Well, because the challenge in modern societies, it's so easy to forget about it, you know, and it's like, it's like anything, really, we were talking about the planets aligned in a previous episode. There's so many things going on around us, that sometimes we forget to take notice of him, you know, there's that saying, take time to smell the roses. It's the same thing. It's the all these things are going on around us. And we don't have to issue like, they're all available. And, and that's what I love about shamanism, is it makes that walk in the forest or that? That that's sitting out on a porch and watching the birds all the more enriching because you're experiencing it with a wide open lens, you know, yeah, you're

Vince Kern  41:59  
immersed in the situation, rather than separated from it and trying to feel its its power. Yeah, it literally goes right through you.

Joe Luther  42:06  
Yeah, we get to open up to more to a more full experience to what's happening around us.

Vince Kern  42:15  
So to wrap it up, there's Sonia's website, you can get more information.

Joe Luther  42:21  
Yeah. And there's, there's a lot of books out there would be very easy to, you know, Google, shamanic, shamanism, shamanic healing books on shamanism. And, and I think really, we're not trying to steer people to to Sonia, she certainly has no shortage of clients, but it's available for for anybody who wants to look into that as well. But I really think more our call to action is just become more aware of it, and open up to it. And you know, like you said, Vince, it's there. And it's available anytime,

Vince Kern  43:00  
and it can help. Yeah. Well, that's great, which is a nice show, Joe, and I look forward to being back here again soon.

Joe Luther  43:07  
My pleasure, Vince, it was great. Well, so ends another episode of Friends in wonder, we really want to thank you for listening. If you'd like to listen to more episodes, provide feedback, questions, or even suggest topics you'd like us to wonder about in future episodes. Be sure to check us out at friends in wonder.com. We'd also be grateful if you'd subscribe, like or share this podcast. Until next time, I'm Joe. And I'm Vince and we're friends in wonder.